Nice Guys and Good Girls

nice guys cyanide and happinessI’m just gonna start by saying this.  I’ve been sitting on this post for a bit, trying to find a way to say this without ruffling anyone.  Well.. I can’t.  So, I’m just gonna call myself out and say it.  I am lambasting ForensicGuy as an example of a trend.  I am saying not-nice things.  I accept the consequences of this because this shit needs to be said.

I would like to talk about “nice guys”.  I should talk about “good girls” too, but I’m not gonna or this’d be a novel.  So I’m just talking about the nice guys for now.

First, they aren’t very nice.   They pretend to want to listen and be happy with what you are offering.  You tell them clearly that you want friendship and they bide time.  They try anyway to seal the deal, and when they are rejected they play the “nice guy”.  Or hell they never take a shot!  They play the nice guy to chip you away to a nub, figuring they can then pounce on your grateful vagina.   They then lecture about how they can “hold a space”, or some other woo-woo bullshit, and how everyone uses them.  They are so upset that the girl doesn’t fuck them even though they were sooooooo nice.

Some of you may remember my friend ForensicGuy.  From day-one he was told that I was not interested in dating him.  I said I needed poly friends and he’s been poly a while.  He seemed smart and came off as really nice and helpful.  We decided to meet in a park.  I made very sure to clarify that this meeting he wanted was just to talk face-to-face because I wasn’t going to date him.  He made an argument that I could, because he would not necessarily require the once a week date or whatever I normally do.  He would be happy with every now and then and wouldn’t balk.  I explained that I WOULD balk at dating someone once a month or less, because to me that’s not a dating relationship.  It’s a booty call and I didn’t have any interest in that at the time.  (you can call anything you want a dating relationship)

We met in the park and he was flirty.  I was annoyed and argued my point further.  Why?  I don’t know.  I supposed I really was desperate for poly friends.  We sat on a bench and talked and he kissed me.  I kissed back and really gave it a shot.  I guess I thought “what the hell.  Give him a smooch test”.  It was a nice kiss, but it broke off after a little bit and I said “ok.. we tried it.  I still can’t date you.  I’m certain.  I can be your friend and only your friend.  If you want that, great.  If not, I totally understand”.  I told him how my husband and I had agreed that I was not dating anyone new and that I was rather overwhelmed with what I had on my plate at the time.  He finally got it and we had a good talk.  We went o eat and he hit on the waitress and we were safely buddies.  I stated plainly that I could only offer friendship, which included texts and calls and such, and maybe very occasional in-person meet ups.  He said he was perfectly happy with that.

Our friendship progressed and we communicated really often.  He was an amazing guy, really supportive and helpful and kind.  We joked and had general good friendship.  I was a real mess and it was very helpful to have an outside opinion and I was deeply grateful.  We joked a lot and sometimes the conversations were flirty and sexual and a few times I felt like I had to clarify that “we’re just friends though, right”?  I figured that was okay because we’d said we were okay with a flirty friendship and that it wouldn’t go anywhere.

I finally had my first sexy date with Traveler, who I’d been seeing about a month, and planned an overnight.  ForensicGuy got really upset when I told him.  He thought a blog I wrote about it referred to him and that he and I were going to sleep together.  I again clarified that we were just friends and I asked if we could knock off the flirty stuff because it seemed confusing to him.  I figured it was my own fault because I had been less than crystal clear and I had been racy.  He had said and said that he got it, but maybe I confused him.  We agreed to stop flirtiness.  Still, I was cautious and often called off  things that seemed too murky, saying straight out that he was being too murky.  ForensicGuy liked to tease me about our friendship, insisting that we had a connection that we didn’t.  He periodically brought up the dating conversation again, saying he was just kidding or just stating his view.

Then ForensicGuy instigated a tiff with my boyfriend and used his rather limited online interaction with said boyfriend to suggest some rather not-nice stuff.  He was really really really off the mark and I tried to tell him so.  ForensicGuy insisted that he was right.  He refused to listen, saying I was too biased.  I asked RollerGirl and Hubby about the boyfriend, thinking maybe I should seek outside input because it’s true people falling in love are often blind.  (scientifically true)  Hubby and Rollergirl separately offered a view of Great Date similar to my own before I’d given them my input and when told about ForensicGuy’s assessment, they both laughed.  I told ForensicGuy this and he negated it, saying that both RollerGirl and Hubby were attached to me and therefore also biased and unable to clearly assess Great Date.  We had a big fight.  After a while a grudging peace was made.  I made amends for my part of our row and a couple of weeks later he owned up to a small part of his.. kinda.  We agreed that our personalities might not mesh well in certain things and it was probably best that we were never going to date.. ha ha.

So, we had our friendship.  I was not playing anymore.  I was more careful about what I talked to ForensicGuy about and much less cool with his “joking about dating”.

Then, forward a few months to now, when I met a new guy off of OKC for coffee, deciding that I wasn’t looking but that I was open to possibility.  I figured a cute interesting guy that had contacted me was worth a peek. ForensicGuy again became irritated.  He lashed out at me for dating someone new.  He was pissed I was open again and hadn’t consulted him.  Um.. what?  I explained that I hadn’t been open to the idea of dating ForensicGuy because a) as I had repeatedly told him, I was interested in his FRIENDSHIP and could only offer him my friendship in return, and b) we would kill each other if we ever dated.

That was it.  He exclaimed that he found my behavior unbelievable and that he couldn’t understand why I didn’t want to sleep with him or date him when he’d “been so nice”.  He said he’d spend all that time listening to me and talking to me and I was just negating any chance of “our connection”.  I explained that I did not feel that connection and that I’d been very very clear on multiple occasions what I would offer.  He was very upset that I had “just decided without [him] what our connection would be”.  He again talked about what a nice guy he is.

Are you kidding me!?!?

Here’s a tip.  if you are pissed that you didn’t get laid by some chick you were nice to, then you’re a douche and you’re not nice at all.  You are fake nice and trying to worm your way into her pussy.  The very fact that “nice guys” sit around talking about how nice they were to this chick and then she just goes and has all the sexy times with THAT loser, who is half the man they are.. well.. tells you these are not nice guys.  Nice people are nice because they are nice.. not for a hidden agenda.  They don’t get pissed when you meet other dudes for coffee and not them.  A nice person who says they are your friend is your friend.

Nice people aren’t pissed that people would like a certain level of association but not another.  If they say they are okay with x, they are ok with x and don’t try constantly to switch it for y.  They don’t form friendships with people and then get upset when those people want friendship instead of fucking.  Nice people don’t keep pushing and pushingand pretend they are kidding.  Nice people don’t talk to you about how “everyone wants to use me for the parts of me they want”.  If someone wants to be my friend and I accept their friendship I am grateful for that connection and that relationship.  I’m not pissed if I would like a greater connection and they don’t.  I don’t classify them as using me because we don’t connect on other levels.

So, yep.. I’m talking to you out there Mr. Nice Guy.  Own your own shit.  If you want to date a girl, tell her.  If she says “no thank you”, either actually be a friend or move on.  Do not assume your fake nicety will win her over and get you what you want.  Don’t be pissed at her if, in the end, your nicety didn’t make her see things your way.  Either be nice or don’t, but don’t be fake.   That’s a douche move.


  1. Good Post…..I have found that there are a lot of guys out there just like him….When I was younger I actually got raped by one, I do not know if raped is the right word, I gave into having sex with him, because it was easier than repeatedly saying no and my dumb ass was in the middle of nowhere, cause we were going to go to a party together so I had thought…..Today I would just kick their ass and not think twice about it, but it took me a lot of years to get here…..If you ever need someone to vent to or another point of view, I am always ready to give my two cents….You can e-mail me for my phone number….Good Post


  2. If he was truly a nice guy he wouldn’t have gone off on you. I can understand the feeling of disappointment he had because he obviously either really liked you or at least lusted for you. I can even understand him keeping a hopeful thought thinking maybe you’d come around but the ambushing of the other guy and the beratement he gave you shows that he really doesn’t deserve your friendship or any other part of you.


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